Jolly Viking, part 10

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Russia, Moscow NDCC War Room 1500 zulu.

Huge screen had a flaming Russian flag. It cross faded to a bird perspective picture, flying over vast forests and mountains, air was clear and you could see a part of the Eagles wing…

”Russija… eternal and strong, forever our home… one nation, under God and his will… time has come, our century is beginning… no emotions, no room for evil, simple it is…”

The voice over was like an old beer commercial, cowboy stuff. You could hear that the speaker had has his share of ethanol and cheap cigarettes. He was actually a famous actor Alexander Shirvindt… the picture cross-faded to strong images of Russian history, the ancient knights and heroic saints stuff, small clips of WW2 with pilots diving to attack, huge explosions and stuff…

”…if you poke the Bear, you will get the Bear… for thousand years, longer than any other, we have defend our Country… from those who want our precious soil, our Rodina, our beautiful Mother Rossija… and we have prevailed and we will…”

Now the clips and picts were from today’s stuff, rushing tanks, artillery batteries shooting, Uragans, Smerchs, Grads… nuclear missiles, fighters, low level bombings, destroyers launching missiles, subs and torpedoes, satellites, computers, parachuters shooting still in the air…

”…forever be loyal, it is the only way… one nation, one Kreml… strong and wise with the men of Gods and the World once again knows that the Bear… is alive and stronger than ever. Rossija. Eternal.”

The picture faded back to the sky. The Eagle was circling around Kreml in a beautiful sun rise and the Russian National Anthem started. The whole HQ at the War Room stand up and started to sing it. They were simply moved, perhaps the lunch before this with few hits of vodka was a good old trick to pull out emotions. And the huge screen with massive resolution, no pixels…

-My fellow comrades, you may sit. By the order of Russian Federation government, that has been ratified in Duma, I, the acting President of Russian Federation, Sergey Shoigu, have ordered a pre-emptive attack to South Finland to secure the peace at Finnish Gulf, Leningrad and south-Carelia areas. We had intel that Finn’s were massing heavy artillery and missiles there which could reach to Leningrad and our strategic targets like nuclear reactors and energy facilities. They were also trying to explode the canal that would have flooded Vyborg and cut our railroads, roads and cause massive damage to Leningrad. Our troops are taking care of that now.

People started to clap and cheer.

-We are also revenging the barbaric attack against our President Putin and the heart of our Military. Doctors are doing the best they can. At the attack died his bodyguard secret service Colonel Pasha Murmanov who was protecting our President with his body, another bodyguard Major Yaromir Uljanov, Defense department head of Staff, Guards General Evgeny Baryshev, Air Force General-lieutenant Timur Burmosov, deputy Emergency minister Janna Puchkova…

The screen was showing all these killed people in bloody closeups in a sterile room with names, birth dates and family status, wife, kids…

-…Moscow Metropolite, his Holiness Kliment III and two children, Vova and Natasha who were there to give President Putin flowers. And tens have been wounded. I order now a minute silence for our heroes who gave their life for our Motherland.

Lights went off, the screen showed all the dead persons and candles flaming in front of an Virgin Mary with Jesus child icon. The silence was deep. Someone tried to hide his crying. Geopolitics has no emotions. Another great Russian lie.

 

6th Army, 138th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade, 262nd Artillery Battalion near Vaalimaa 1510 zulu.

You couldn’t see the Battalion in the dark. It was hard even on daylight. They were hidden on the tree line and covered with nets and branches. You could hear them though, all kinda klonks and yells were in the air. Iron was heavy.

-Attention! We have fire orders! All to the guns, radio silence, use the wire taps! Davai davai!

The Battalion had 18 tracked artillery guns, 152mm Akatsiyas. They were in close line formation 4km from Finnish border near Laykhalampi. All started their engines, they need power for the hydraulics and electronics. 2nd Battery’s first gun was the reference gun. It would shoot first and the others were lined with that. First gun leader, Guard Sergeant Nusrajev put his tank driver helmet on and report to the Battalion commander he was ready.

-2nd Battery, first gun, full charge, illumination round, timing 36, side 28-76, 583!

-Illumination…36..28-76…583… loaded and ready sir!

-Agon!

The gun blasted a 40kg shell with speed of 500m/s up in a high angel, the blast wave and muzzle flame illuminated everything around it like a camera flash, it was just much more yellow. Or orange. That shell would burst up high, 1km or lower and then come down with a parachute illuminating a 1 square mile area for 40 seconds. It was going to burst roughly 10km inside Finnish territory. It didn’t have any real purpose actually. There was no targets there, yet. This was just 6th Army Commanders idea to draw attention away the Lappeenranta area.

-2nd battery, all guns, full charge, illumination, timing 38, side 28-73, 584!

6 guns, or actually howitzers, loaded and gave ready to fire reports.

-Agon!

Now the illumination and blast wave was just more massive. Also on the other side. The Battalion commander ordered the 1st Battery to shoot randomly illuminations closer to the border and the 3rd was waiting. After 10 rounds you need to cool the barrels for awhile and then he would use the 3rd. Finn’s could hear there outgoing booms near the border and would get very nervous. Also everyone will rush out and fill internet with pictures of those illumination rounds. At the same time EW Brigade would fly drones over the area, that would certainly draw the attention there. Well, you never know, something might pop up on that intel. Besides drone based fire observation needs training…

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Vainikkala railway crossing point, 40km NE from Vaalimaa 1512 zulu

Finnish border guards open the gates to let the Finnish passenger train in. Before it stopped, VDV soldiers opened fire through the windows and opened doors against the Customs building and stormed in. They have made sure that the rail would be opened for them by informing that there was some Finn’s in the train that need urgent medical help. There really was Finn’s in the train, a group of 15 hold as hostages. As soon as they have cleared the building, the train moved on. The next train was just behind them and two companies from 4th Battalion jumped to take over the area. That train also moved on after they unloaded their war machines. And then rolled in the third train, 4th Guards Kantemirovska Tank Division’s 1st Regiment, 156 tanks, T-80’s. They just rolled it to the side tracks and tank crews started their engines. They have been all the way for last 60km inside their tanks with full ammo and fuel loads. They simply turned their tanks 90 degrees and drove off the trailer with turrets turned to point back. In 20 minutes whole Regiment except 5 damaged tanks was heading to Lappeenranta that was only 20km away. And the 2nd Regiment train just passed by, it was going 30km further to cut the main road and railroad to Lappeenranta. And the 3rd was arriving in 1 hour. The Finn’s had some pre-made trenches with machine guns and rpg’s around the custom building and deeper in the way to the village but Russian intel has spotted those hours ago and it was easy to wipe them out with straight tank hits. And the mechanized infantry was cleaning the pockets, every regiment has one battalion with them and Kantemirovskaya had added also extra engineering company to this 1st Regiment. Russia didn’t fear much of the Finnish Air Force, they knew they have very limited air to ground weaponry and they also ruled the sky with their overwhelming Anti-Aircraft missile arsenal and radars and EW Brigades. Besides it was simply too costly to send a fighter against a tank, the pilot was more valuable than a whole tank company. Still they had their AA units, two companies of Tunguska’s and one Tor with them, one company guarded the Vainikkala area, one company moved with the 1st. 3rd was with the HQ unit that was on the move with the 1st regiments 1st battalion. The 2nd was on the lead and in front of them was the recon company with civilian cars and the silent BRMD’s and some EW stuff. What they feared was mines and infantry. But since they have surprised Finns quite good, there was not even those. Just stunned civilians watching from their windows and taking videos and picts of them. But that was nothing to worry about now, they drove fast in the dark December freezy night, it was just 15 kilometers to the town.

-Sergeant, take a line to HQ’s!

-Yest!

Pskov VDV 76th Divisions Guards Communication Specialist Sergeant Tyartsev tapped some buttons and gave the handset to Major Lezye. The line went from the armored communication vehicle to the railroad.

-Adin tri nol, report, crossing point one secured 2030 Moscow time. Casualties one KIA, 4 WIA. Enemy losses 8 KIA, 4 WIA and 13 prisoners. Area clear for 25th MRB to arrive. 5 tanks are damaged on unloading.

-Yest. Is the bridge secured behind the south building?

-Da, there’s a checkpoint and two BMD’s. Also the alcohol storage is destroyed but the cigarettes we keep.

-Yest. You have earned them. Leave some to the 25th. We send helo to pick up the wounded.

-Yest. Adin tri nol, over.

Lonely drone flew over them in a darkening night. From east. It was own. Nashe.

russi8u

Finland, road 3513, 17km from Vaalimaa, Russian border 1525 zulu.

Reserve Office School Captain Tervala was leading 6 trucks column filled with volunteer officer conscripts from anti-tank and engineers companies. They had 120 anti-tank mines, 50 anti-tank NLAW’s and a bunch of 66mm LAW’s. And personal weapons. Conscripts were loading their clips, two with armor piercing and tracers, others with full jackets. They were roughly a company. 72 men. Another similar group was pushing trough the civilian traffic few kilometers up north at road 7. They were formed from Reserve Officer Schools 1st and 2nd company. They had also fire observers and recons with them. Also other groups were formed, that school has all branches, Artillery, Anti-Aircraft, Engineers, Communications, Infantry, Recon… and they were all basic trained, gone trough special education and been in multiple drills already. And they got the spirit. When they asked for volunteers, only few said no. They had kids or other reasons, totally acceptable and they stay on the supply formations. That had to work also. But fucking hell they were scared. Sky was full of illumination rounds. They could hear the shooting Russian artillery in the clear cold December air, it has just been Finland’s 100th Birthday and here they were, thinking of Winter War. 20 year old boys. Or men. Or both.

-There is a tank regiment at Torfyanovka, that artillery is shooting from 4km from the border behind it. That whole Brigade is there, 138th. We are going to stop behind that hill, see that farm? Turn there and drive under the trees.

-Yes Captain.

The driver was Finnish Army warrant officer, one of the military trainers in the anti-tank company. They both knew very well the surroundings here. It was their job to know. On the other trucks was also a warrant officer or a officer from the School, they were making 6 teams, all lead by a one.

-Okay my brothers in arms, from now on, I am just Tervala. We have a job to do. Together. Unload the trucks, keep in air cover, get some spruce branches and make yourself well camoed. Listen and smell everything, there is Russian recon here, don’t use any lights, those illumination rounds will give us enough light. Understood?

-Yes… yes sir.

-Now fear. We all have it. But so does the others. Russian tanks burn good. And goes off with a big bang. You want to sit in a machine like that knowing that anywhere can be a angry Finn with anti-tank weapon?

Somebody laughed, it started to spread…

-…or angry mines? Okay, we have no own tanks on this area so any tank or BMP or similar is a target. Watch out for civilians, try to route them to safety. Use your radios only in real emergency. Remember the flare signals. You all leaved your cell phones to the barracks? And left then on? Good. Check that again from each others, one phone can kill us all.

-Sir, do we get back up?

-Back up is on it’s way. Battalion is formed in Kotka, it will arrive soon. We will have our drones feeding intel and artillery battery and heavy mortars will cover us in one hour.

-Our own?

-Yes, 122mm artillery battery and heavy mortar company from school. I will be the FO. Stinger teams are on the way, one platoon for us. We don’t have any copters on the area so all flying is a target. But don’t start shooting drones, it’s useless unless it is low. Use the armor piercing and tracers against helos. After you shoot, change your position.  If the helo is close, shoot it with the rpg.

-Guys, remember Ukraine. They are fighting like Lions. They have stopped Russian Army. Now it is our turn to take example. They took example of our Winter War, we are brothers with them now. Brothers in Arms. Hopefully NATO will join us in this fight. But that is not in our hands. Now lets show some Finnish Perkele!

-Perkele! To the end!

The group gathered their weapons, engineers took the mines and some rpg’s, anti-tank guys the rest. Silently they scattered to the dark forest. Like wolfs smelling blood…

 

 

Russia, Valaam Monastery 1555 zulu

Alexander Dugin was sitting in a small monk’s room dressed up like a one and writing his diary. He liked that and was actually part of the secret ”Modern Days Templars” organization that has members from all over the World, also Vatican. He was the Grand Master. They were a ”Hybrid collection of Traditionalists” or something like that. Collection of nut-heads and conspirators. They were actually a FSB operation and it wasn’t hard to recruit people from Church, any church, to this group that promised to restore ”God and Kings”, demolish the godless global village idea. Because these people didn’t want to loose their power and they all hate young people with their iPhone’s and Androids… ”God doesn’t need an iPad!” was one of their favorite slogans. Some said that that Breivik’s, the Norwegian far-right monsters ”Manifesto” was written by FSB. It had so much detailed information and deep knowledge that a one simple guy couldn’t do it. Some said that it was partly written by Dugin. But it was not a coincidence that they were very close with far-right. It was their ”street army” in Europe and Russia. And they openly dreamed of a revolution. And that was happening in Russia. Funny thing was that they  got Muslim friends. After all, Jesus was also a saint in Quran…

…Those foolish Finns. They have been asking themselves all the time that why in earth would Russia attack them. They have no oil, gas or another resources, they are peaceful people, they have good relationship with Russia and other parts of the World. They are advanced society in many levels and have strong mentality to defend their country… Yes, all of that is true. But once again a nation sees itself like a selfish person does: as a single creature that should concentrate on what is important for only him. And this is what we have couraged and this is how we control our east neighbors Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and so on. And this is how we controlled Finland for years after WW2. We have tons of material of this stuff in the cellars, we have all the names and connections, we have made deep psychological analyses of the entire establishment, not hard, the nation is only 5 million people, the ruling class is only 1000 people. And we didn’t need to get the society behind our actions, all we needed to keep it isolated. Believing in its own strengths, trusting us and not seeing the big picture. The Big Picture. That Finland is the weak part of the chain, the chain of European Union. We are not attacking Finland. Just like we were not attacking only Ukraine, we are attacking West. We are breaking the West. We fear the West because we are weak. We have lost our soul, people don’t watch our movies, young generations listen some weird drug music and don’t believe in the God and the Holy Spirit. Pussy Riot is more popular in West than our singing Babushkas. Homosexuality is popular, that means lower birthrate, that means weak nation. We change this. We will restore ”Imperial Russia”, we will have order like USSR and the Glory of Empire.  Oh those Finns, they didn’t see that the route to kick down European Union was going through them. Of course we don’t attack NATO directly. They have nuclear deterrence. We give NATO a middle finger because we want Finns think that it is dangerous, that seeking membership is dangerous. And my God it has been easy. Some Finns have knew this all the time. But we have played a good friend for so many years that we are now inside the most pro-NATO party. We have so much money in Finnish Banks that if we pull that out, Finnish economy will collapse. I believe they are doing it right now. World is chaotic. Russia is chaotic. That needs to be controlled. Our greatest enemy is ourselves. There are those who dare to ask why and those who are strong enough to say shut the fuck up. Liberals in West, those annoying little children with their progressive thoughts, oh how easily the Pope stepped on our side. He understands the value of Tradition. And the power and wealth it has behind it. Christianity. Conservatism. Nationalism. Corruption. Our four horsemen…

Bilibin44

 …to be continued… soon. 😉

… – – – …

This is fiction, raw method, with some bloody facts… sorry for not correct English, will be corrected on the run… with Love from Finland. 🙂 Follow updates on twitter >

 

 

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Jolly Viking, part 10

26 kommenttia artikkeliin ”Jolly Viking, part 10

    1. Yes, I’m writing this is fast style, this is all raw version 1.0. Will do checkings and fact checking etc. on the run. Well, facts are kinda accurate, don’t want to get too specific on some details, they say that son’t give good ideas to fools… 😉

      Tykkää

  1. Mannerheim sanoo:

    Yes, it is ”fiction”, science fiction to be accurate 🙂

    But you have located this in near future and obviously try to create an illusion this would/could happen in reality. Hence, your many errors and unrealistic scenarions make your text unenjoyable and annoying.

    I just take one big mistake in your text: ”Sweden joins NATO in 24 hours”. That’s virtually impossible. Go check the facts how new members are accepted to NATO.

    Tykkää

    1. Sweden will join NATO very fast, they have plans for that. The first phase is that USA deploys troops to Sweden and Russia will get fucking angry but can’t do anything and then they sign a ”preliminary NATO paper” and the acceptance process will be dealed later. Sweden has actually something to give to NATO, they make Jas-fighters, bloody good submarines, stealth ships, missiles, smart weapons etc. And no one will resist taking them in. Instead Finland can’t in this scenario because it is under attack from Russia.

      Tykkää

      1. Mannerheim sanoo:

        Sweden cannot affect how fast they are accepted (if at all) to NATO club. That process is completely beyond their powers and takes several MONTHS even in accelerated form.

        Yes, USA can quarantee Sweden’s security in mutual military pact like they have done for instance with Japan and South Korea. But to my knowledge Sweden doesn’t have such an agreement, so your fiction is truly fiction, science fiction. It doesn’t exist in this real world.

        There is no such a thing as ”preliminary NATO paper”.

        Yes, Sweden has quite a massive weapon industry, that is finally one correct fact in your writings.

        And yes, Finland can’t join NATO if there is ongoing conflict with Russian. Neither can Sweden. It doesn’t take much for Russia to generate a conflict with Sweden. It is actually much easier done with Sweden than with Finland, because Sweden virtually has no army nowadays. Finland at least has, quite a decent one.

        Tykkää

      2. ”finally one correct fact in your writings.”

        If you bother to check out ie the Russian troops here, they are existing and true ones. The 6th Army HQ’s is at Agatalovo (Karelian Isthmus, NE from Leningrad) the Brigades or Divisions are real, some numbers are not right (like the Arty 262nd Battalion) etc. Just google those.
        The attacking Russian part in this story is accurate and exists. The 135th is already at our border at Kamenka, 20km from Vyborg. Whole Karelian Isthmus is military zone.

        What comes to the Sweden’s NATO relations, think about Cold War. They have good and real deals with ie Norway, USA etc and they are negoatiating right now about this matter, I am 100% sure. All it takes that USA or UK, Danes send tripwire troops to ie Gotland. The thing is that if Russia attacks Finland, Norway will immediately send troops to Sweden. And that’s enough, Russia won’t touch Sweden. But Finland… we will get the hammer.

        Tykkää

    2. kijiku sanoo:

      Or did he hit the right spot?
      All his military facts are 90% correct here

      Besides ”Sweden will join NATO in 24 hours” was a dialogue in the storyline,
      nit picking about things like that show just your personal opinion.

      Yes, his (and yours) English could be better. But just could you instead of trying to negate him down (like typical finnish aproaching to everything) be more productive?

      Liked by 1 henkilö

  2. Mannerheim sanoo:

    Many mistakes in the military response how Finns would react to the Russian hostalities in war/war-threat like situtation.

    Like you could drive in with the trains to Finland, heh heh 😉 Nope sir, not that simple.

    To make your text realistic, add at least some long-range reconnaisance patrols (”kaukopartio”) inside the Russian territory. Counting the trains, reporting what’s happening there.

    You should know we had done it before. It is one of the first things we would do in the future, if it’s needed. Not all reservists are in ”several months deep sleep”. 🙂

    Best regards, sissiupseeri reservistä

    Tykkää

    1. This story starts as a Russian surprise attack to Åland right after our Indepence Day on 7th December. Finland is totally surprised and the Russian military has mobilized it units that are real (not reserve, readiness 80-100%) secretly and planned this operation for a year or two. The time scale is that part 10 on this story is only 14 hours from the Russian surprise landing to Åland. If you remember Crimea and east Ukraine, things can be done very fast and sneakily if you want. And will.
      Russia has 6 railroads to Finnish border and we have the same railroad gauge (4mm diference) so no need to change bogies. Intel in this story is coming from ie NATO headquarters, Sweden etc. Finland is just pushing up a ”emergency mobilization” and is in a chaotic phase. 😉
      Russian Army is at the border with strength like ~120.000 (6th Army plus other elements). At Åland there is 3 regiments plus. Or Brigade. At Baltic Sea there is whole Baltic Fleet and Russian Air Force has 350+ planes for this operation. But yes, I thought that sissi (recon) thing but they just haven’t have time for it. Yet.
      TUKOM YL LATAA. terv tykistöupseeri reservistä. 😛
      tää on fiktiivistä, mutta kelaan tässä kuinka se oikeasti voisi mennä. Meinaan kun ei olla NATO:ssa niin…

      Tykkää

      1. Mannerheim sanoo:

        I see your point, but I also see, that you are not that ”well informed”.

        What you suggest to happen as a ”surprise attack”, is not possible in the volume you suggest.

        I cannot reveal more, but Finland has some intel sources of its own to trust if Russia deploys en masse.

        Best Regards,

        recon officer from the Finnish reserve

        Tykkää

      2. I hear this stuff all the time, that Finland has it’s ”secret” that and those, that Finland has better recon and intel than NATO because ”secret” that and those etc. 😉
        I don’t believe in that ”secret” that and those. Because I know somethings too. And reality is something different than ”secret” plan B at the ”super secret department X”. We’ve seen that in Crimea. And Russia knows Finland in some matters better than we know ourselves. We have this self deception mentality which leads to arrogancy and some people have this thinking that ”Yeah, why not, let’s go for the war, we might get another stalemate! But hell, it would be bloody awesome to be an officer and gain some medals shit!”… ? 😉
        Our arrogant approach to war is not only a threat to our civilians and society but to whole Europe because the Finland-Sweden non-NATO status is a gray area in north Europe and a next target in Russian military planning. See: Arctic (why Russia is preparing Arctic troops? To attack polar bears? No, it’s against Finland-Sweden scenario.) .

        Tykkää

      3. Mannerheim sanoo:

        Well, probably our overall capabilites on recon and intel are not superior compared to ”NATO’s”. Or actually we should speak about NATO member state capabilities. Because NATO as an organisation has very small resources of its own to gather intel inside ”deep enemy territory” like war-zone in Ukraine atm. But USA is NATOs ”eyes and ears”. Some minor capabilities have UK, France and Germany secret services respectively.

        But how can Finland have better peace-time intel on certain issues like mobilization against us? The answer is FOCUS. We have small resources, but we are trying observe ”half the globe” like USA tries to do. We don’t have enemies like al-Qaida. We have just a single issue: monitor possible military activity close to our borders. And what comes to our dear friend Russia, monitor certain area we know will get activated should they start any major war preparations. The character of those kind of preparations is such that they won’t happen without us to notice it 🙂

        I would be more worried about a strategic attack* (”strateginen isku” in Finnish) than a full scale ”surprise” invasion – which is not a realistic scenario IMHO. Not at least that it would be a surprise to us. Strategic attack done by the most agile and effective Russian forces is difficult to repel. But we have done some progress to improve our capacities on that area, too, during the last 10 years – and work continues.

        * A note to anglo-saxon readers: We Finns understand term ”strategic attack” differently than how for instance US AF uses that term.

        And yes, Russians are capable as a military power. I at least do not underestimate them. But I wouldn’t overestimate their capacities either. For instance what we have seen in Ukraine is mostly unprofessinalism from the ”Uki” side than overwhelming superiority from the Ruski side.

        Had Finnish Army been there instead of Ukis….I guess our dear friends would have had lot more ”Cargo 200” and progress less sure. You blame in your writings that our leaders are corrupt. That at least is fiction if anything. Maybe they are, but at least our military is not corrupt and our security forces are not that either. And we have some decent men in our reserve. Ukraine has none of them. Not even modern weapons.

        Tykkää

  3. Mannerheim sanoo:

    You write in Finnish ”Because we are not in NATO…”

    NATO doesn’t add anything to our ability to make a rapid response. Actually, it’s quite a controversial. By joining NATO, they willingness to fight with arms would propably drop among Finnish people.

    NATO is a club of gentlemen, where everybody seems to think ”somebody else takes care of this nasty war thing for me. I don’t need to put my hand in this war shit thing”. The only exception is USA. Without Americans NATO would be a paper tiger.

    So by joining NATO, the same European NATO mentality ”defence is not my problem, somebody else takes care of it – maybe” would start to spread in our people.

    You wrote H. Clinton would be the next US President. But what if it were D. Trump? Who has already said: ”USA should withdraw from Europe”. There you would be. Europe without a decent defence is USA scales down its role in NATO.

    Tykkää

    1. One word: Nukes.

      Okay some more words, How can Russia attack NATO that has over 370 nuclear warheads in Europe (France and UK) and USA has 4200+?
      Cold War? Who win that? Did Russia attack Europe even once that time?
      (We were in a military pact with Russia then, YYA deal…)
      About paper tigers, NATO has war ready troops 24-7. They are now at Baltic Sea with full weapon loads, there is tanks and manpower in Baltics, Poland etc. And we here in Finland have plans on paper. And drills. But no units. No units. We are militarily a empty hole for a surprise attack.
      NATO has nuclear deterrence. We don’t have even stuff to shoot down missiles. We can’t prevent Russia shooting missiles over our airspace to ie Atlantic.

      Our ”Independence” thinking is very, very dangerous. And I hear some scary stuff from some people that ”we can beat fucking russia, just give me my rifle perkele…” but you know, there is 140 million people in Russia. They attacked Ukraine that is 40 million people. We are 5 million. And we have a border line that is 1340km with Russia. It is longer than NATO countries have.
      Empty and very attempting hole for Russia we are. And so is Sweden.

      Trump is not going to be the president btw. I can bet on that. 😉

      Tykkää

      1. Mannerheim sanoo:

        NATO has no ”24*7” ready infantry. Neither has Russia – and neither have we.

        It is so expensive to have 24×7 battle-ready infantry, that I know no peace-time country which would have such constellation ready.

        Besides that, NATO has actually very little foreign military presence in the Baltics or Poland. Those troops are more symbolic than a massive army. The onnly exception is the Air Power in the Baltics, where foreign NATO member countries take care of the peace-time air defence for those countries. Because they have no air power of their own.

        If nuclear deterrence would be the magic key to answer all your defence needs, why does NATO have conventional troops at all? Explain that. Or Russia? Why have all those jets, tanks and battle ships, if all you need (according to you) is to have some nukes? 🙂

        Ukraine is a broken example and you know it.

        We, 5/6 million are actually much more tougher, better prepared, better trained, better equipped army and nation than 40 million Ukraine.

        Ukraine negleted completely their defence for years and they are corrupted like hell. Russian FSB infiltrated their society on all levels. Wasn’t that difficult after all, because they are ”slavic cousins” and understand even eachothers languages.

        But could Russian ”igor” manage to infiltrate us that massively like they did in Ukraine? Our Russian minority is close to non-existent. Many of those few we have are not loyal to Putin but us. Which is beneficial to us. We need some Russian speakers , too. As we did in 1939-44.

        Come to bully in our Åland as ”friendly green men” ? You would be immediately exposed because their equipment is so different from ours.Nobody would believe a second that lie. In Ukraine they could play this game because Ukis mostly use same kind of soviet time equipment like Ruskies do. But we have not much of that soviet time equipment left.

        Tykkää

      2. ”NATO has no ”24*7” ready infantry. Neither has Russia”

        …hmmm. You are sounding like little bit, what can I say… are you serious? What do you know about USA / UK etc military? Or Russia’s? You think the whole world is working like Finnish reserve museum that has on paper lovely solid troops with tractors and civilian cars with old Russian artillery and stuff? And you call ”uki’s” that they don’t have modern weapons? Do you know that ”Uki’s” have ie tank industry and they sell it other countries? Yhey build Antonov cargo planes, they have missile production etc. they might not have USA made anti-tank missiles but…

        Seriously, you think NATO doesn’t have 24-7 deployable troops? Or Russia?

        u trolling mate?

        Tykkää

      3. ”We, 5/6 million are actually much more tougher, better prepared, better trained, better equipped army and nation than 40 million Ukraine…”

        LOL… yeah, u can go dreaming to some other dimension. And start reading from part one, like some one said, the truth is gona hurt…

        Just a question, when was the last time a FULL Finnish military Brigade and I mean a Brigade with all equipments, tanks, working trucks, ammo and stuff has been in up ie in drills? Or a Battalion? What Finland has is reserve at homes, last time touched a gun in Army or latest drill and a plan on paper. We have the paper cat army. Can you imagine the chaos when we try to put that up in 2 days? This story doesn’t last two days…

        ”Russian FSB infiltrated their society on all levels. ”

        If you remember Cold War and YYA deal… well, KGB and FSB has infiltrated our society also. And you know it. That’s why I don’t believe in those ”secret secret” plans of how Finland will hokkuspokkus pull out massive and reliable deterrence against Russia. No way they can do it.
        Yeas, maybe a company in Helsinki of the ”secret secret right party memebership” group or two that secures the demolishion of strategic stuff and makes a pathway for the government flee to Europe or something smthing. But real military stuff against Russia? In two days?
        C’moon…

        What comes to Ukraine, Russia is playing it as a frozen game. It is ongoing. They can do that. There’s multiple examples of that Moldova, Georgia, Dagestan, Karabash etc.
        Finns are still thinking some conventional WW2 massattack bullshit when we have already seen this Hybrid in action. Our import-export business in over 60% to Russia. And that is one hellova pain in our ass but a jolly good weapon in Russias hand. Same mistakes made that during the Cold War…

        Tykkää

      4. ”If nuclear deterrence would be the magic key to answer all your defence needs, why does NATO have conventional troops at all?”

        Nuclear Deterrence was the key to save Europe in Cold War. NATO countries didn’t have the land troops mass that USSR had on the Warsaw Pact borders (roughly 200 Divisions, on Finnish borders counting Estonia over 50)
        NATO’s defense against USSR attack to Europe (they had multiple plans like Fulda Gap, 6 Days to Paris etc) was based on using nuclear weapons against massing divisions. And Russia was also using nukes on their plans.
        Therefore the whole situation was based on total nuclear war. ”If you destroy me, I destroy you”.

        The question ”why have conventional troops at all” is naive, you need troops to secure borders, comms, intel, security, other threats, surveillance, air superioty, anti-missile stuff, anti-aircraft, etc etc. And what if enemy can take fast with his land troops your area and cities, you can’t nuke your own people… 😉

        Tykkää

  4. kijiku sanoo:

    Wou mate! Such butt hurt mannerheim talking bullshit about Ukraine and lies about NATO capabilty wou 😁be carefull Trolls are everywhere and I’m smelling one 🐶 justsaying 😉

    Liked by 1 henkilö

    1. nah, trolling is so last seasons, it is the content that matters. 😉
      The NATO narrative he has here is sadly quite common in Finland, it comes from the ”uskottava maanpuolustus” (credible defence) idea that if Finland has strong enough defense, Russia won’t dare to attack. Therefore many Finns have this ”NATO sucks cause they are weak and will weaken our mental defense etc etc” idea in their head. It is mainly a self defense mechanism to ”prove that we can beat Russia” which is IMHO very dangerous lie.

      Tykkää

  5. Mannerheim sanoo:

    Trolling mentioned.

    I see, immediately when you are confronted with some fact, you start yelling ”trolling”. So cheap.

    Yea, I know a lot about US Army, Russian Army, UK Army, Finnish Army, Swedish so called Army (or weapons industry) etc. In fact I do, I’m interested in military technology and systems.

    And check your facts about Ukraine. It really is that way, that they largely abandoned their defence. For instance they stopped conscription for some years ago…and their military is infiltrated by FSB like hell. Ours is not. Insane and directly harming our country (epäisänmaallista) claim something like that which is not backeup up by the facts.

    Do you think Americans had sold us some of their best weapons if our military would be infiltrated by FSB?

    And we have the modern weapons and ukrainians do not have. Yea, I know they have Malyshlev tank factory. Which produced/produces the soviet time stuff like T-64 and T-80. Not very impressive. We have the Leopards with a very high upgrade packet. Modern multisensory battlefield awareness incl. capable thermal sighting is in our tanks. Not in Ukrainian tanks…. Plus lot more.

    We have the Spikes, NLAWs, Apilas, BGM-71 TOWs et cetera – all things Ukis have been mourning after and asking the West to supply them.

    We have modern fighter planes, helicopters, big and efficient artillery (you should know :), mortars etc. And we have big reserve, all men have got at least the basic traning. Some troops are more frequently trained, some are not. All based on precise need analysis. Not all reserve troops are equally important to be yearly trained. But I dare to say, that for instance special forces like recon teams are much more frequently trained than for instance artillery officers 🙂

    So yes, Ukraine won’t happen here so easily. I’m 100% sure about that.

    Tykkää

    1. I wasn’t yelling about trolling, it was a question. 😉
      Because you said that NATO doesn’t have 24-7 troops or Russia doesn’t have…

      Besides you comparing that ”if we would have been the ”Uki’s” we would have caused much more cargo 200″ is completely irrelevant. And sounds just like typical ”manliness”.

      Ukraine’s pro-Russian (Putin’s puppet) president Yanuchovych ended the Ukraine’s mandatory conscription some years ago and it was deliberately act. It tells that this Russia’s operation was planned long time ago. And I don’t like you downgrading Ukrainians who are dying for their country in a War against Russias annexation. What would it sound when we are in the same situation that people speak like that? That omg, yeah, Finn’s are total losers, our NATO troops will kick Russia’s ass to the moon but those fat Finish reservists… well, they asked for it, they didn’t want to join NATO…

      We have ~170 of those TOW’s. Even rebels in Syria have those. Not some ”high tech secret stuff” anymore. But do we have the latest missile tech, cruise missiles, gps arty ammo, abm capability, EW, LRASM’s, tanker planes, AWACS, satellites, early warning radars, stealth fighters, drones (and I mean good ones, not that old ”härpäke” RUAG Ranger) etc etc.

      And the big reserve. That’s the only thing we have. And 200 000 chinese made AK copies in grease some where secret secret cave.

      We have 140+ Leopards (the rest of the 2A6’s have not yet come.) 2A4’s. One Russian Tank Regiment has 156 tanks. or more. T-80’s, T-90’s, T-72B’s etc. And Russia has Tank Armies (12-16 Regiments). They have air superiority, they can penetrate our airspace with their radars and EW capabilities and S-400 reaches 400km+.

      And armies infiltrated with enemies intel is more than usual. It happened to all armies ie during WW2. We have had espionage cases in our Army. And we will have in the future. Human nature. Never assume that everything is alright… 😉

      For instance, why USA hesitated so long in some weapon deals to our F-18’s?

      Do we have btw double-head NLAW’s or are they just single’s? I mean do they punch through reactive armor?

      ”Epäisänmaallista” …LOL You said it is not patriotic to write this stuff? Do you mean that I break the ”Uskottava maanpuolustus” hymn? (virsi, hokema, uskomus, kaanon etc)? 😉

      Ukraine won’t happen here so easily… So, who knew two years ago that Ukraine was going to happen? Crimea? Why we are quickly changing laws about using conscripts in war, why we are drilling so fucking much atm? Because it won’t happen? And how does it happen if it does?

      This is one way of seeing it. At least I am not trying to sleep in that ”uskottava maanpuolustus” dream, instead I’m looking it from a different angel. And i don’t give a shit if I stir up some of this old school Finnish military thinking. I think that we are in great danger. And we need to seek full NATO membership and fast. Sweden is doing it. But we are scratching our balls and wondering what Timo Syömi writes to his next ploki. 😉

      I’m not going to that ”who is trained better” because you didn’t even recognize these Russian troops on this story. That they are real. In one of my mil drill’s we took one regiment from that 138th Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade, Kamenka (6th Army).

      But keep recon, you seem to need it. 😉

      Tykkää

  6. Mannerheim sanoo:

    You probably know but just in case. Some lessons from the war in Ukraine. And why Finland is not Ukraine. Discussion in Finnish.

    http://maanpuolustus.net/threads/ukrainan-sodan-havainnot-ja-opetukset.3711

    http://maanpuolustus.net/threads/ukrainan-konflikti-sota.2939/page-1230

    In summary: completely incompetent military leaders. Failed mobilization.

    Ukraine is 8x bigger country than Finland. Still, 6 months after intense fighting, it had managed to mobilize ONLY 50000 men, many of them poorly trained, poorly equipped! That’s ridiculous underperfomance!

    If Ukraine would be like Finland, they should have had an army of 1.6 million men after 6 months! Trained, well armed and effective!

    (How fast Finland gets force developed is a secret and shouldn’t be discussed in open – but it is a lot faster than ’6 months’ – I just wanted to give some illustration how POOR military performance Ukraine has showed for such a big nation!)

    Tykkää

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